? Rückführung Westheer 1918

Hallo,

zwei Fragen zum Waffenstillstand von Compiègne hätt' ich heute:

1.) Wie viele Soldaten standen zu diesem Zeitpunkt noch in Frankreich, Belgien, Luxemburg, Elsaß-Lothringen, die binnen 15 (andere Quelle 14 Tagen(?)) "hinter den Rhein" mussten? Galt dieses Dekret nur für Soldaten oder für alle Deutschen (Krankenschwestern, Zivilbeamte usw.)?

2.) Laut Wikipedia wurde bereits hier - nicht erst in Versailles- die Ablieferung von 5.000 Lokomotiven und 150.000 Eisenbahnwaggons vereinbart. Zu welchem Zeitpunkt? Sofort? Klingt nach "alles was da ist, bleibt auch da".

Allgemein also: Wie sollte der Rücktransport logistisch laufen?

Gruß Gabriel

 

Danke für Deine Antwort!

Das Weltkriegswerk schreibt, daß Mitte Dezember 1918 noch 160 Divisionen mit 2.000.000 Mann unter Waffen waren. Am 11.November waren noch 4.000.000 Mann an der Westfront gezählt worden.
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Mitte Dezember dürften ja eigentlich nur noch Alliierte "unter Waffen" gewesen sein, am 11. November noch alle. Macht dem nach 2 Mio deutsche Soldaten?

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Okay, das Klebebild-Heftchen von Kwak Bohnerwachs und Erdal mag jetzt keine wissenschaftliche Quelle sein. Aber Interessant ist die Beschreibung des Rückzug trotzdem.

 

Hallo Andreas - bin gerade dabei aus "Der Völkerkrieg" die Hefte 275 und 276 dazu zu digitalisieren. Werd' das wohl für meine Homepage aufarbeiten müssen, die Lage im www dazu ist ja echt mau!

Hier der Waffenstillstandsvertrag als pdf - vor allem mal inklusive der Fußnoten!

https://www.loc.gov/law/help/us-treaties/bevans/m-ust000002-0009.pdf

Noch 2 Bildles aus "der Völkerkrieg":

 

ich häng den Anhang (der fast überall fehlt) mal hier rein, da der Link oben scheinbar nicht mehr geht:

ANNEX No.1

I. The evacuation of the invaded territories, Belgium, France, and Luxemburg,
and also of Alsace-Lorraine, shall be carried out in three successivestages according to the following conditions:

• First stage.-Evacuation of the territories situated between the existing front and line No.1 on the inclosed map,a to be completed within 5 days after the signature of the armistice.
• Second stage.-Evacuation of territories situated between line-No.1 and line No.2, to be carried out within 4 further days (9 days in all after thesigning of the armistice) .
• Third stage.-Evacuation of the territories situated between line No.2 and line No.3, to be completed within 6 further days (15 days in alI after the signing of the armistice) .

Allied and United States troops shall enter these various territories on the expiration of the period allowed to the German troops for the evacuation of each.

In consequence, the allied troops will cross the present German front as from the 6th day following the signing of the armistice, line No.1 as from the 10th day,and line No.2 as from the 16th day.
(Not printed here; see British Command Paper (1918) 9212.)

MULTILATERAL AGREEMENTS 1918-1930
II. Evacuation of the Rhine district.-This evacuation shall also be car ried out in several successive stages:

• (1) Evacuation of territories situated between lines 2 and 3 and line 4, to be completed within 4 further days (19 days in all after the signing of the armistice) .
• (2) Evacuation of territories situated between lines 4 and 5 to be com pleted within 4 further days (23 days in all after the signing of the armistice) .
• (3) Evacuation of territories situated between lines 5 and 6 (line of the Rhine) to be completed within 4 further days (27 days in all after the sign ing of the armistice).
• 4) Evacuation of the bridgeheads and of the neutral zone. on the right bank of the Rhine to be completed within 4 further days (31 days in all after the signing of the armistice) .

The allied and United States army of occupation shall enter these various territories after the expiration of the period allowed to the German troops for the evacuation of each; consequently the army will cross line
No.3, 20 days after the signing of the armistice.

It will cross line No.4 as from the twenty fourth day after the signing of the armistice; line No.5 as from the twenty eighth day; line No. 6 (Rhine) the thirty-second day, in order to occupy the bridgeheads.

III. Surrender by the German armies of war material specified by the armistice.

This war material shall be surrendered according to the following conditions:
The first half before the tenth day, the second half before the twentieth day. This material shall be handed over to each of the allied and United States armies by each larger tactical group of the German armies
in the proportions which may be fixed by the permanent International Armistice Commission.

ANNEX No.2

Conditions regarding communications, railways, waterways, roads; river and sea ports, and telegraphic and telephonic communications:

I. All communications as far as the Rhine, inclusive, or comprised, on the right bank of this river, within the bridgeheads occupied by the allied armies shall be placed under the supreme and absolute authority of the commander in chief of the allied armies, who shall have the right to take any measure he may think necessary to assure their occupation and use. All documents relative to communications shall be held ready for transmission to him.

II. All the material and all the civil and military personnel at present employed in the maintenance
and working of all lines of communication are to be maintained in their entirety upon these lines in all territories evacuated by the German troops. All supplementary material necessary for the upkeep of these lines of com munication in the districts on the left bank of the Rhine shall be supplied by
the German Government throughout the duration of the armistice.


III. Personnel.-The French and Belgian personnel belonging to the services of the lines of communication, whether interned or not, are to be returned to the -French and Belgian armies during the 15 days following the signing of the armistice.
The personnel belonging to the organization of the Alsace-Lorraine railway system is to be maintained or reinstated in such a way as to insure the working of the system.
The commander in chief of the allied armies shall have the right to make all changes
and substitutions that he may desire in the personnel of the lines of communication.

IV. Material-

(a) Rolling stock.-

The rolling stock handed over to the allied armies in the zone comprised between the present front and line No.3, not including Alsace-Lorraine, shall amount at least to 5,000 locomotives and 150,000 wagons. This surrender shall be carried out within the period fixed
by clause 7 of the armistice, and under conditions the details of which shall be fixed by the permanent International Armistice Commission.
All this material is to be in good condition and in working order, with all the ordinary spare parts
and fittings. It may be employed together with the regular personnel, or with any other, upon any
part of the railway system of the allied armies.
The material necessary for the working of the Alsace-Lorraine railway system is to be maintained or replaced for the use of the French army.
The material to be left in situ in the territories on the left bank of the Rhine, as well as that on the inner side of the bridgeheads, must permit of the normal workingof the railways in these districts.

(b) Permanent way, signals, and workshops.-

The material for signals,machine tools, and tool outfits, taken from the workshops and depots of the
French and Belgian lines, are to be replaced under conditions the details of which are to be arranged by the permanent International Armistice Commission.
The allied armies are to be supplied with railroad material, rails, incidental fittings, plant, bridge-building material, and timber necessary for the repair of the lines destroyed beyond the present front. .

(c) Fuel and maintenance material.

The German Government shall be responsible throughout the duration of the armistice for the release of
fuel and maintenance material to the depots normally allotted to the railways in the territories on the left
bank of the Rhine.

V. Telegraphic and telephonic communications.
All telegraphs, telephones, and fixed WIT stations are to be handed over to the allied armies,
with all the civil and military personnel and all their material, including all stores on the left bank of the Rhine.
Supplementary stores necessary for the. upkeep of the system are to be supplied throughout the duration of the armistice by the German Government according to requirements.


The commander in chief of the allied armies shall place this system under military supervision and shall insure its control, and shall make all changes and substitutions in personnel which he may think necessary.
He will send back to the German Army all the military personnel who are not inhis judgment necessary for the working and upkeep of the railway.
All plans of the German telegraphic and telephonic systems shall be handed over to the commander in chief of the allied armies.

ADDENDUM NOVEMBER 11, 1918.

The representatives of the Allies declare that, in view of fresh events, it appears necessary to them that the following condition shall be added to the clauses of the armistice:
"In case the German ships are not handed over within the periods specified, the Governments of the Allies and of the United States shall have the right to occupy Heligoland to insure their delivery."
The German delegates declare that they will forward this declaration to the German chancellor, with the recommendation that it be accepted, accompanying it with the reasons by which the Allies have been actuated in making this demand.

F.FOCH
R. E. WEMYSS,
Admiral

 

Was ich noch nicht verstanden habe:

Inkludieren die 5000 Lokomotive und die 150.000 Wagen die Beute-Lokomotiven? Stellt das also schon eine Art Reparationsleistung dar, oder ging es darum, dass die Deutschen das französische und belgische Eisenbahnmaterial beim Rückzug nicht mit abziehen?

..und was sind WIT-Stationen? Was mit Funk?

 

ahh, W/T macht Sinn.

Im übrigen haben, wie ich inzwischen erfahren habe, 13.000 - 14.000 Lokomotiven den Alliierten "vorgestellt" werden müssen, aus denen diese dann die 5.000 ausgewählt haben. Da hin- und herbringen der Lokomotiven hat ziemlich übel Chaos verursacht und die ursprüngliche Frist konnte folglich auch nicht eingehalten werden. Bedeutet auch, die Beutelokomotiven, welche zurück gegeben werden mussten sind in den 5.000 Stück nicht enthalten, ebenso wenig der Lokomotivpark der Elsass-Lothringischen Eisenbahn.